New to Vanquish - Guild Wars Forums

Silvia Shadowback · Dec 15, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

So I just unlocked HM in all campaigns and I now going to try and vanquish for titles. I will be using the triple necro build found here (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish). I was wondering what are some of the easier areas that I could start with just to see how it works.

*Darcy* · Dec 15, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Prophecies - Old Ascalon
Factions - Sunqua Vale
Nightfall - Plains of Jarin

While vanquishing with the 3-necro hero team is much easier than with other setups for most areas, you will run into problems off and on. That is why that thread has variations on the build. Always make sure that your character's build is great also.

placebo overdose · Dec 15, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

i would recomend kourna no hard bosses 8 team party and small spread out mobs just watch the avatars and the ele bosses and if your melee bring stance removal

shoyon456 · Dec 15, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

In tyria, when vanquishing ascalon/if you have enough time, i suggest you try caravan vanquishing. I will just say it involves starting from a town life Lions Arch that allows 6 ppl, and vanquishing all the way to ascalon w/o going into a town, which allows you to have 6 ppl in ascalon when normally you would have to do it w/ 4. Look it up on wiki if you're confused by me.

And fyi, make sure you have alot of time to do it, a lotta food, and a loooong soundtrack of upbeat songs to listen to.

I got burnt out by my 3rd continent, took little under a week for each one.

IronSheik · Dec 15, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Easiest area? bukdek byway with the drunken master vanq, :P

But otherwise, Sabway isn't always the best, it's good to tailor your heroes to whatever area you're doing, granted it is great, isn't always the best

Parson Brown · Dec 15, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I might wait on the 4-man Prophecies areas until you get a feel for vanquishing.

If you're willing to start on any continent, Cantha is pretty easy all the way through.

Nightfall also is easy except for one or two spots in The Desolation area (Shelkeh the Hungry in Alkalai Pan, for example)

Prophecies is probably the hardest to finish. A couple of the 4-man areas are murder, even caravaning with a party of 6. Rotscale is a beast, and there are a few areas with known bugs that make it impossible to vanquish the area without a little luck.

Kook~NBK~ · Dec 15, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Plains of Jarin is probably the easiest area to vanquish. All of Istan is easy, since there are no tough bosses, and all but Jarin can be accessed with an 8-person party.

Silvia Shadowback · Dec 15, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Thanks for all the input. I will defiantly be using these tips.

TurinPT · Dec 15, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Remember to always have some dp removing items like pumpkin cookies or candy canes, you might run into some harder groups and a full 60% dp'ed party will auto-resign.

Set up a hero mesmer or ranger dedicated to interruption, you'll need one in some areas. Healers can get pretty powerfull in HM.

Always look up the area on the wiki before starting a vanquish.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vanquisher
Has a nice list with the number of kills needed for each area and what quests can decrease/increase that number.

It can get pretty boring. Download some movies and tv-shows, run GW on window mode and watch them while you vanq. I went through every episode of The wire, desperate housewives, weeds, arrested development and a few more while I got my title.

Feathermoore Rep · Dec 15, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

The New Aura of the Lich is WAY better than that Jagged bones build ever could be. Take Aura and Shambling Horror and you should have 7-10 minions the entire time in zones with corpses. As well depending on your play style and speed of clearing, i usually run putrid flesh instead of blood of the master. Esp with deathnova on the bar, you get free 100+aoe dmg and disease.

As well, I'm not too sure about that wiki n/rt healer. I run a hybrid dmg support on mine.
And in general, SS rapes pve. But reckless haste with HM already attacking 33% faster can be dangerous. Also, death pact on a hero IMO is sketch. I usually run one or two flesh, because enemies go for the one with the lowest health first, so death pact can wind up hurting you in the end.

If you want you can play around/test mine here's what I'm toying around with at the moment. Trying out Lingering in some more Healer heavy zones over SS, might try Soul Bind next too.
Masters - OAhjYchqITJTeTOODTHXTOjTciA
Olias - OANDUspPSyBHVKgoBJVVV1DBEA
Livia - OAhjYoHroSYMOCWC7B2BjBMiXMA

As well, starting with easy zones will spoil you. Just pick a zone and go for it. NF will probably be the easiest apart from a few areas with large spawns and Epic Damage Bosses. (cough SF boss cough) Factions is little bit harder due to exploding afflicted. Prophecies and EoTN are the toughest (if you call pve tough). HM Charr will probably own you the first time, if you aren't prepared. Dual Healer Charr mobs with Mesmer are probably the closest to a balanced enemy mob team build. As well for Charr/dungeons, I usually don't take triple necros. I usually wind up taking a Prot Monk, Mesmer, and a SS or a second mesmer. Shutting down Charr Casters can be easier than outhealing your heroes and henchies who are standing in Meteor Showers and Firestorms.

When you get to the Old Ascalon, I recommend you find 1-3 friends and vanquish down from yak's doing all the zones. You can skip flame temple and dragon's gullet and come back either from yak's or from grendich courthouse, as they aren't that hard. I did all of them from yak's back before the ursan nerf with consumables and it still took like 8 hours (largely becuase we took like 3 breaks from the mindnumbing boringness of ursan.) 6 people/heroes will be very very helpful in the zones with the grawl healers, and just clearing out enemies quickly in general.

But really most zones aren't that hard.
- Just pull smart and pull small.
- Always flag your heroes apart from each other enough so that they don't all stand in one meteor shower or savannah heat. As well, if you re-flag them they won't cast until they reached their new flag point. Important for flagging monks - easier to just unflag them and hope they run out of the aoe and reflag once its done.
- Powerstones of Courage can save a botched run if DP catches up to your heroes.
- Consumable sets and summoning stones are your friends.

Other than that, good luck.

Edit - Oh yea and when you clear Lornar's Pass - There will a group of stone summit with 3 monks, 2 mesmers and 8-9 physicals. Easily one of top five most pain in the ass groups in HM, especially if you don't know about it.

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 15, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

those are very basic and very nice, solid starter builds. I would personally suggest adjusting the minion bar to have healing or channeling instead of prot. start with an area that is small and consists of a relatively low number of enemies. I would also suggest and 8-man area as 4-man and 6-man area can be quite challenging depending on how experienced you may be. wiki has a great list of the avg number of mobs in every area of the game that can be useful in deciding what area you may wish to try vanquishing first.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vanquishing

FengShuiDove · Dec 15, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

The first thing, and I repeat, FIRST THING, I suggest is:

Develop a tactic for getting the entire area.

Having a steady tactic for finding and dispensing all foes in an area will save you many hours of frustration and heightened chances at failing or disconnecting while searching =P. For this reason, I suggest doing Prophecies... not first. Cantha is rather easy in my opinion, and your 3 Necros will go most if not all the way with very few issues.

Other than that, shoyon's advice of having a distraction and food nearby wins the thread =). Vanquishing is fun if you're doing it for fun. If you're trying to cram a continent into 3 days, it won't be. Pace yourself and enjoy it, it'll be more fun.

Oh, and cartograph simultaneously. It might not be the *fastest* way to get the respective titles, but it feels efficient to me and it has agreeable symmetry.

Jensy · Dec 15, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Elona: I'd hold off on the Plains until you've got a decent team build going. I'd start off with The Cliffs of Dohjok. Leave from Beknur Harbor, as you'll get a party of 8. This area is easy, and will give you an idea of what the rest of Istan is like.

Basically, I'll echo FengShuiDove, and suggest that you work on optimizing your team for the entire area. It's much easier to take down a 4 man area, when you know what your team needs.

cataphract · Dec 15, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Don't forget to hug the walls of a vanquished area. That way you'll be making a considerable progress in your cartographer titles too.

Abedeus · Dec 15, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

I'll give ya an tip, too. The beginning is the hardest - taking the best route, deciding which enemies to kill and so on. As long as you don't go for the time, and try to do it slow and steady, you won't have problems.

Skye Marin · Dec 15, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Vanquishing also helps progress the following titles:

Via exploring:
Cartographer

Via killing things:
Elite Skill Hunter
Any EotN title
Sunspear and Faction titles

Via Lockpicks and chests:
Treasure Hunter
Wisdom
Lucky
Unlucky

Arduin · Dec 15, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

And bring some alcohol for your Drunkard title

TideSwayer · Dec 15, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

CTRL Key is your friend. Learn to love it. Learn to abuse it. Learn to basically do all of your walking and side-to-side camera panning with that key held down. Seriously - make sure you don't let any red dots sneak by you in your field of view or your compass. Otherwise, you'll spend 45 minutes looking for some isolated leftover mob at the end. It's something that everyone has encountered at one time or another. It's the part of vanquishing everyone hates. It's why there should probably be some leeway given for vanquish zone credit overall (ie. let us leave a few mobs out here or there and still get the credit).

In terms of useful skills, wards can be good depending on the area, and if you have access to EotN, do the quests to get Pain Inverter. If those high-damage bosses/mobs are going to take out some of your party in one hit (or all of your minions), make sure they get taken down with 'em.

thral · Dec 15, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Take some consumables just incase you run in to something you didint plan for so you get that extra push to overcome it. Its not that hard all in all, just concentrate and dont over aggro. Cantha would be the easyest place to start i think.

gw_poster · Dec 15, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

basically everything above are good suggestions, but to add:

load texmod if u don't already have it and get ur vanq/carto done simultaneously. I always start a vanq by going along the outside edges then working my way back in. I"ll leave mobs be if not on that path, otherwise if you start chasing them one leads to another, etc. and you end up doing a lot of backtracking. The only exception being roaming mobs that are represented by red dots moving rather quickly on ur mini-map..take them out because they will be the ones ur looking for in the end (long patrol mobs).

Always have ur "U" map up to see where u've been.

Load up on personal consumables (slice of pumpkin pies, candy apples, pumpkin cookies, golden eggs, b-day cupcakes) that increase attack and/or movement speed, raise attributes, remove dp, etc. whenever u get a chance to buy them. (Trick-or-treat bags are good for this) These will prove invaluable and u'll notice the difference when ur not under the influence of them. Besides, they are cheaper than cons sets and provide +1's on sweet title. A good set of heros and smart play (effective/efficient pulling, etc.)should not die often enough to be a dp issue in most cases. Undoubtedly, you will wipe once or twice in some areas, especially with Sabway (I've found hex-heavy, 4 and 6-man team areas to be especially bad to this team), unless you tweak per area as others have suggested.

Always have loads of lockpicks, buy them whenever u see them for <1.2k...always make sure u have an empty inventory before going out on the next vanq.

Customize ur heros weapons (and urs)...the extra 20% can make a difference.

Pull mobs around corners to you and flagged heros, if possible. Minions, if any, will attack first and create a packed mob, ready for the nuking/dazing/SS'ing/barraging or what have u.

Make sure to read wiki vanquishing page to see which quests will give u less monsters in that particular area before u go out.

Good luck, happy hunting..hth!

Dec 15, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13	#1
Silvia Shadowback Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Sleeping at Worlds [End] Profession: N/Mo	New to Vanquish So I just unlocked HM in all campaigns and I now going to try and vanquish for titles. I will be using the triple necro build found here (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish). I was wondering what are some of the easier areas that I could start with just to see how it works.

Dec 15, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18	#2
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Prophecies - Old Ascalon Factions - Sunqua Vale Nightfall - Plains of Jarin While vanquishing with the 3-necro hero team is much easier than with other setups for most areas, you will run into problems off and on. That is why that thread has variations on the build. Always make sure that your character's build is great also. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Dec 15, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36	#9
TurinPT Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2006	Remember to always have some dp removing items like pumpkin cookies or candy canes, you might run into some harder groups and a full 60% dp'ed party will auto-resign. Set up a hero mesmer or ranger dedicated to interruption, you'll need one in some areas. Healers can get pretty powerfull in HM. Always look up the area on the wiki before starting a vanquish. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vanquisher Has a nice list with the number of kills needed for each area and what quests can decrease/increase that number. It can get pretty boring. Download some movies and tv-shows, run GW on window mode and watch them while you vanq. I went through every episode of The wire, desperate housewives, weeds, arrested development and a few more while I got my title. Last edited by TurinPT; Dec 15, 2008 at 05:38 AM // 05:38..

Dec 15, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56	#10
Feathermoore Rep Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: PM me for JACT Invite Guild: Feathermoore Clan Profession: R/Mo	The New Aura of the Lich is WAY better than that Jagged bones build ever could be. Take Aura and Shambling Horror and you should have 7-10 minions the entire time in zones with corpses. As well depending on your play style and speed of clearing, i usually run putrid flesh instead of blood of the master. Esp with deathnova on the bar, you get free 100+aoe dmg and disease. As well, I'm not too sure about that wiki n/rt healer. I run a hybrid dmg support on mine. And in general, SS rapes pve. But reckless haste with HM already attacking 33% faster can be dangerous. Also, death pact on a hero IMO is sketch. I usually run one or two flesh, because enemies go for the one with the lowest health first, so death pact can wind up hurting you in the end. If you want you can play around/test mine here's what I'm toying around with at the moment. Trying out Lingering in some more Healer heavy zones over SS, might try Soul Bind next too. Masters - OAhjYchqITJTeTOODTHXTOjTciA Olias - OANDUspPSyBHVKgoBJVVV1DBEA Livia - OAhjYoHroSYMOCWC7B2BjBMiXMA As well, starting with easy zones will spoil you. Just pick a zone and go for it. NF will probably be the easiest apart from a few areas with large spawns and Epic Damage Bosses. (cough SF boss cough) Factions is little bit harder due to exploding afflicted. Prophecies and EoTN are the toughest (if you call pve tough). HM Charr will probably own you the first time, if you aren't prepared. Dual Healer Charr mobs with Mesmer are probably the closest to a balanced enemy mob team build. As well for Charr/dungeons, I usually don't take triple necros. I usually wind up taking a Prot Monk, Mesmer, and a SS or a second mesmer. Shutting down Charr Casters can be easier than outhealing your heroes and henchies who are standing in Meteor Showers and Firestorms. When you get to the Old Ascalon, I recommend you find 1-3 friends and vanquish down from yak's doing all the zones. You can skip flame temple and dragon's gullet and come back either from yak's or from grendich courthouse, as they aren't that hard. I did all of them from yak's back before the ursan nerf with consumables and it still took like 8 hours (largely becuase we took like 3 breaks from the mindnumbing boringness of ursan.) 6 people/heroes will be very very helpful in the zones with the grawl healers, and just clearing out enemies quickly in general. But really most zones aren't that hard. - Just pull smart and pull small. - Always flag your heroes apart from each other enough so that they don't all stand in one meteor shower or savannah heat. As well, if you re-flag them they won't cast until they reached their new flag point. Important for flagging monks - easier to just unflag them and hope they run out of the aoe and reflag once its done. - Powerstones of Courage can save a botched run if DP catches up to your heroes. - Consumable sets and summoning stones are your friends. Other than that, good luck. Edit - Oh yea and when you clear Lornar's Pass - There will a group of stone summit with 3 monks, 2 mesmers and 8-9 physicals. Easily one of top five most pain in the ass groups in HM, especially if you don't know about it. Last edited by Feathermoore Rep; Dec 15, 2008 at 06:02 AM // 06:02..

Dec 15, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41	#18
TideSwayer Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: We Farm Your [?????????s]	CTRL Key is your friend. Learn to love it. Learn to abuse it. Learn to basically do all of your walking and side-to-side camera panning with that key held down. Seriously - make sure you don't let any red dots sneak by you in your field of view or your compass. Otherwise, you'll spend 45 minutes looking for some isolated leftover mob at the end. It's something that everyone has encountered at one time or another. It's the part of vanquishing everyone hates. It's why there should probably be some leeway given for vanquish zone credit overall (ie. let us leave a few mobs out here or there and still get the credit). In terms of useful skills, wards can be good depending on the area, and if you have access to EotN, do the quests to get Pain Inverter. If those high-damage bosses/mobs are going to take out some of your party in one hit (or all of your minions), make sure they get taken down with 'em. Last edited by TideSwayer; Dec 15, 2008 at 10:48 AM // 10:48..

Dec 15, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21	#3
placebo overdose Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: N/	i would recomend kourna no hard bosses 8 team party and small spread out mobs just watch the avatars and the ele bosses and if your melee bring stance removal

Dec 15, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43	#4
shoyon456 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: D/	In tyria, when vanquishing ascalon/if you have enough time, i suggest you try caravan vanquishing. I will just say it involves starting from a town life Lions Arch that allows 6 ppl, and vanquishing all the way to ascalon w/o going into a town, which allows you to have 6 ppl in ascalon when normally you would have to do it w/ 4. Look it up on wiki if you're confused by me. And fyi, make sure you have alot of time to do it, a lotta food, and a loooong soundtrack of upbeat songs to listen to. I got burnt out by my 3rd continent, took little under a week for each one.

Dec 15, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21	#5
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	Easiest area? bukdek byway with the drunken master vanq, :P But otherwise, Sabway isn't always the best, it's good to tailor your heroes to whatever area you're doing, granted it is great, isn't always the best

Dec 15, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09	#6
Parson Brown Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In ur base... Guild: The one true [Hope] Profession: E/	I might wait on the 4-man Prophecies areas until you get a feel for vanquishing. If you're willing to start on any continent, Cantha is pretty easy all the way through. Nightfall also is easy except for one or two spots in The Desolation area (Shelkeh the Hungry in Alkalai Pan, for example) Prophecies is probably the hardest to finish. A couple of the 4-man areas are murder, even caravaning with a party of 6. Rotscale is a beast, and there are a few areas with known bugs that make it impossible to vanquish the area without a little luck.

Dec 15, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26	#7
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	Plains of Jarin is probably the easiest area to vanquish. All of Istan is easy, since there are no tough bosses, and all but Jarin can be accessed with an 8-person party.

Dec 15, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44	#8
Silvia Shadowback Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Sleeping at Worlds [End] Profession: N/Mo	Thanks for all the input. I will defiantly be using these tips.

Dec 15, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42	#11
Eragon Zarroc Atra estern?? ono thelduin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madness Incarnate Guild: [Duo] Profession: W/P	those are very basic and very nice, solid starter builds. I would personally suggest adjusting the minion bar to have healing or channeling instead of prot. start with an area that is small and consists of a relatively low number of enemies. I would also suggest and 8-man area as 4-man and 6-man area can be quite challenging depending on how experienced you may be. wiki has a great list of the avg number of mobs in every area of the game that can be useful in deciding what area you may wish to try vanquishing first. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vanquishing

Dec 15, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44	#12
FengShuiDove Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Guild: Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] Profession: A/	The first thing, and I repeat, FIRST THING, I suggest is: Develop a tactic for getting the entire area. Having a steady tactic for finding and dispensing all foes in an area will save you many hours of frustration and heightened chances at failing or disconnecting while searching =P. For this reason, I suggest doing Prophecies... not first. Cantha is rather easy in my opinion, and your 3 Necros will go most if not all the way with very few issues. Other than that, shoyon's advice of having a distraction and food nearby wins the thread =). Vanquishing is fun if you're doing it for fun. If you're trying to cram a continent into 3 days, it won't be. Pace yourself and enjoy it, it'll be more fun. Oh, and cartograph simultaneously. It might not be the fastest way to get the respective titles, but it feels efficient to me and it has agreeable symmetry.

Dec 15, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21	#13
Jensy Site Contributor Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Guild: Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa] Profession: N/Mo	Elona: I'd hold off on the Plains until you've got a decent team build going. I'd start off with The Cliffs of Dohjok. Leave from Beknur Harbor, as you'll get a party of 8. This area is easy, and will give you an idea of what the rest of Istan is like. Basically, I'll echo FengShuiDove, and suggest that you work on optimizing your team for the entire area. It's much easier to take down a 4 man area, when you know what your team needs.

Dec 15, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51	#14
cataphract Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ashford Abbey Guild: Hey Mallyx [icU] Profession: Mo/Me	Don't forget to hug the walls of a vanquished area. That way you'll be making a considerable progress in your cartographer titles too.

Dec 15, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00	#15
Abedeus Grotto Attendant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Niflheim Profession: R/	I'll give ya an tip, too. The beginning is the hardest - taking the best route, deciding which enemies to kill and so on. As long as you don't go for the time, and try to do it slow and steady, you won't have problems.

Dec 15, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50	#16
Skye Marin Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2006 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: E/A	Vanquishing also helps progress the following titles: Via exploring: Cartographer Via killing things: Elite Skill Hunter Any EotN title Sunspear and Faction titles Via Lockpicks and chests: Treasure Hunter Wisdom Lucky Unlucky

Dec 15, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20	#17
Arduin Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Limburgse Jagers [LJ] Profession: R/	And bring some alcohol for your Drunkard title

Dec 15, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13	#19
thral Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2007 Profession: W/	Take some consumables just incase you run in to something you didint plan for so you get that extra push to overcome it. Its not that hard all in all, just concentrate and dont over aggro. Cantha would be the easyest place to start i think.

Dec 15, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08	#20
gw_poster Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: so cal Profession: R/	basically everything above are good suggestions, but to add: load texmod if u don't already have it and get ur vanq/carto done simultaneously. I always start a vanq by going along the outside edges then working my way back in. I"ll leave mobs be if not on that path, otherwise if you start chasing them one leads to another, etc. and you end up doing a lot of backtracking. The only exception being roaming mobs that are represented by red dots moving rather quickly on ur mini-map..take them out because they will be the ones ur looking for in the end (long patrol mobs). Always have ur "U" map up to see where u've been. Load up on personal consumables (slice of pumpkin pies, candy apples, pumpkin cookies, golden eggs, b-day cupcakes) that increase attack and/or movement speed, raise attributes, remove dp, etc. whenever u get a chance to buy them. (Trick-or-treat bags are good for this) These will prove invaluable and u'll notice the difference when ur not under the influence of them. Besides, they are cheaper than cons sets and provide +1's on sweet title. A good set of heros and smart play (effective/efficient pulling, etc.)should not die often enough to be a dp issue in most cases. Undoubtedly, you will wipe once or twice in some areas, especially with Sabway (I've found hex-heavy, 4 and 6-man team areas to be especially bad to this team), unless you tweak per area as others have suggested. Always have loads of lockpicks, buy them whenever u see them for <1.2k...always make sure u have an empty inventory before going out on the next vanq. Customize ur heros weapons (and urs)...the extra 20% can make a difference. Pull mobs around corners to you and flagged heros, if possible. Minions, if any, will attack first and create a packed mob, ready for the nuking/dazing/SS'ing/barraging or what have u. Make sure to read wiki vanquishing page to see which quests will give u less monsters in that particular area before u go out. Good luck, happy hunting..hth! Last edited by gw_poster; Dec 15, 2008 at 11:11 PM // 23:11..